Low-Tech Natural Aquarium Guide

      By Dan S. Quackenbush for "Freshwater and Marine Aquarium" magazine

      Part 2 (Vol. 20 #3) March 1997

      Revised for WWW and includes updates not in the original version.


      1. Contents:
        1. 
        Zone 3  The Water Column
        2. 
        Zone 4  The Substrate Water Column Interface
        3. 
        Zone 5   The Substrate



      ZONE 3- THE WATER COLUMN

      My quest for a low-tech planted aquarium was impeded by several fronts. The first, was the difficult time I had giving up certain methods that work well for fish, but were not in the best interests of plants. Another problem is, that the many, somewhat inexpensive books (that I still suggest), are very friendly toward hi-tech equipment, but are all lacking in a low-tech methods. All of these books, fail to mention the high cost of this equipment they favor. In fact, I can't think of any book that suggests that there are many distinct methods of setting up a planted aquarium, from no-tech, or low-tech to high-tech. The other impediment to low-tech, is the sometimes misleading information you get from hi-tech companies. The point being, is that low-tech is somewhat novel, new and yet very workable. Like all other aspects of aquarium methodology, it can always be improved.
       

        1.THE WATER

        All aquariums are gigantic, ever changing chemistry experiments. I am proof you don't need a chemistry background to succeed. On the other hand, you will likely fail without at least a little chemistry lesson here and there. More advanced knowledge is in those little books I've been suggesting.

        (updated rewrite)The source of most aquarium water is your home faucet. As it comes out of your tap, most of it's unfit for aquariums. If you have a municipal (city) water supply, it will have chlorine or chloramine that has to be neutralized . It will also likely contain toxic metals. These problems can be solved simply by using products made for starting aquariums. You want a chlorine/chloramine remover with E.D.T.A. that locks up the metals if they are there. Jungle's "Start Right is one of many such products.

        The next problem, is that over 70% of the water in this country is hard, to very hard water and unsuitable for most plants. Hardness is determined by the amount of minerals dissolved in your water supply. The most typical and abundant minerals are calcium and magnesium. Both of these are alkaline mineral salts.

        pH is a scale that goes from 0-14 and used to determine if your water is acid or alkaline. 7, in the middle of the scale, is considered neutral. The lower the number below 7, the more acid, the higher the number away from 7, the more base (alkaline).

        In natural waters such as lakes and rivers, it is normally a safe assumption, that if the water is on the acid side, it's softer and on alkaline side, it's harder. Since the majority of readers are going to be afflicted with hard water, one could easily come to the conclusion that by adding something acid, like a chemical made to adjust the pH (lower), that the problem will be solved. The simplicity of this logic, will likely create even greater problems.

        Simply adding acid won't make the minerals go away. To make hard water suitable for plants, means removing the minerals, by either "reverse osmosis or a "de-ionizer" process. You could also use a lot of distilled water (very costly) or collect rain water. If you use rain water, it should not be collected from downspouts (roofs are often full of toxins) . It should also be boiled, if stored, before using it. A reverse osmosis or de-ionizer unit are not too expensive, but likely will be your most expensive piece of equipment. Keep in mind, processed water is used to dilute your tap water hardness. Zero hardness is the opposite extreme plants don't like. The amount of processed water you use initially, will be determined by how hard your water is from your tap or source water. This same processed water is usually used for partial water changes or replacing evaporated water.
         

        Most plants found in aquariums, flourish in water between 6.2 and 6.8 pH.. Even the plants that prefer 7.0 to 7.5 can adjust much easier to a lower pH, than the acid preferring plants can tolerate a pH above 7.0

        2. MORE ON WATER HARDNESS

        In harder, higher pH water, it is more difficult to deliver carbon (CO2) as a gas to the plants. If the plants can't get CO2, many can resort to getting their carbon fix from bicarbonates. Without getting technical, the result can change the pH to as high as 9.0. In turn, this causes scale on the plants and lung alkalosis to fish (deadly to both).

        There is also the ammonia problem. Ammonia is typically the most deadly toxin (for fish) produced in an aquarium. When the pH is 7.0 or below, ammonia becomes ammonium. Ammonium is not toxic.

        In spite of all this, there are plants that like harder water, with above 7.0 pH and many fish will also do well in this water. You will have fewer plants to choose from, but you can do beautiful aquariums, with just one species of plant.

        (Update) Mastering a low-tech plant tank in hard water, would certainly be a boon for those many suffering in hard water areas. I don't play in hard water, so I am not comfortable giving much advice in this area. If I were to try this area, I do believe a CO2 injector, would look very promising.(update finished)

        3. TEST KITS

        In a fish tank without live plants, the fish have zero ability to improve their water. In fact, their entire metabolism is geared to turn the aquarium into a cesspool. Without a filter and partial water changes, the fish will die a toxic death of their own doing. Even with filters and water changes, it always seems fish tanks are close to impending danger. Most disasters can strike without any change to the water clarity. For this reason, I have been a big advocate of just about any test kit available, in hopes of spotting water quality problems before they occur.

        When it comes to plants, you can use all the same test kits and at least 4 more. They include; iron(Fe), Carbonate hardness ( K or dCH),CO2, and phosphate (PO4). Naturally, I bought them all. Unnaturally for me, I seldom use them, with one exception, and that's the pH test kit. I will not suggest you should stop using test kits, but I can't resist telling you why I seldom do.

        I know that statement is going to generate a lot of e-mail heat so let me defend my position a little. First of all, if you were to own all the test kits out there, your talking several hundred dollars and a lot of time to use them. Once you have determined hardness and pH, you have a good handle as to the quality of water you have for plants or at least what corrections your going to have to make. There is a great deal of chemistry change that goes on in a low-tech aquarium, but once the low-tech aquarium ages a bit, you will find that most of the big changes occur from morning to night. If you made the same test at the same time each day, you will find little variance from day to day.

        As I stated before, in a typical filtered FISH tank without live plants, the fish are only capable of degrading their aquarium. When fish and plants are combined, a wonderful partnership is born. The various poisons that fish produce are cherished as food by the plants. They especially love what can be the most toxic, ammonia. Even the CO2 that the fish produce, but have no use for, is sucked up by the plants. In effect, the potential toxins are now improving the water quality.

        To my knowledge, no one has ever come up with an exact formula for partial water changes that is proven to be just the right amount, at just the right frequency, and that will work best for all aquariums. My seat of the pants recommendation therefore seems as valid as anyone else's. In a low-tech plant aquarium (not a fish tank), I do partial water changes based mostly on the clarity of the water. I have one 20 gal, with a small filter, that probably averages two 30% partial water changes a month. I have a no-tech tank that went about 8 months before I did a partial water change other than to replace evaporated water. But this is not so easy for a beginner who typically overfeeds.

        The point I am trying to make is, that a low-tech plant tank often create such a stable condition that I now rely almost totally on the observation of the plants condition and water clarity as an indicator, instead of test kits.

        The pH test kit is the one test kit I do use. Besides the obvious pH reading, I have knowledge of hardness. I can also test for CO2 with a pH test kit. CO2 reduces pH. The greater the amount of CO2 the greater the reduction in pH. Plants produce CO2, 24 hrs a day, but only consume it under light. This allows the plants to produce a surplus of CO2 at night, in the water, for use the next day.  KEEP THIS IN MIND WHEN YOU SET UP A TANK. IT'S A VERY USEFUL TEST. SEE NEXT PARAGRAPH.

        In the morning, the CO2 should be at its highest level and the pH at the lowest level and therefore the best time to test the water. I take a cup of water out of the aquarium and from the cup I take a pH reading. Then I add an air stone to the cup of water, the more air the faster the CO2 is driven from the water. After 10 -15 min., I take another pH reading from the cup of water. The greater the difference in pH reading, the greater the amount of CO2 you have. If you do the test and find little or no change, it's more than likely because your filter or an air stone is driving off all the surplus CO2. It could be other things. such as someone selling you terrestrial plants, sick plants or you simply don't have enough plants to make a difference.

        You can also do this same test on your water supply. I was quite surprised to learn how much CO2 was in my tap water.

        In summary, I think it is accurate to state, that you won't get enough CO2 if your pH is above 6.8. As a result, most plants will die slowly. If you can't get your pH low enough one possible alternative is to inject CO2.

        4. Filters

        I am convinced you don't need any filter in a low-tech aquarium , but I still use and recommend certain types. The downside of filters are, that most are constructed to not only filter, but also to drive out the CO2 by water surface movement. This is nice for fish, but not so nice for plants. Most filters are also geared to filter biologically. To a certain extent, this puts them in competition for the same nutrients the plants desire.

        There is also a plus side. My first choice in filters is, a small submersible power filter, such as the Duetto or Shark  for smaller tanks. These can be mounted numerous ways to get the benefit of water motion the plants like, in the bottom half of the aquarium, without moving the surface water. 

        (Update) I did purchase a monster filter (big for me anyway). It's a 250 Magnum without the bio-wheel filter. I didn't buy it because it's big. I bought it because it was the smallest filter I could find that had a micron cartridge. I was told (correctly) this was fine enough to filter out algae spores, and seemed like a better option than a diatom filter. In essence, it is a lazy mans way, (and I am lazy), to prolong partial water changes in some of my aquariums.

         I purchased another inlet tube/strainer and used this to replace the water churning outlet tube that came with the Magnum when I bought it. Now the water enters the tank low enough, that the surface isn't moved and the strainer prevents the water from blowing a crater in the easily moved sand substrate. I can also run the monster filter every day and it seems harmless to the plants. To summarize, I am suggesting that the wrong filter can do a lot of damage to a low-tech plant tank. Conversely, it would seem, that any filter that can be rigged so as not to move the water surface, is harmless to plants.(update finished)

        In summary, plants can produce all the CO2 they need if the pH is low enough.. Once you have CO2, the trick is to conserve it until the plants can use it during the day. Moving the water with the wrong filter, air stones or any other device that moves the surface, is as bad as not having any CO2. Simply put, if you don't have CO2, you won't keep most plants alive for long. Improper pH, and/or the wrong filter, are the number one cause of plant failure in low-tech tank set-up.
         
         

        5. Temperature

        (Rewrite)There are 3 options. If you are going to breed certain fish such as Discus, keep warmth loving plants, or want to speed up plant growth, then a standard heater for the water column is what you need.

        The high-tech folks are big on substrate heating. This is usually cables buried in the substrate hooked up to an external thermostat. Those that use it claim improved plant growth. Some opinions are, that the plants like warm feet but a more plausible opinion is that the warmer water in the substrate creates a very slow water current through the substrate. This makes nutrients in the substrate more accessible to the roots. This little gadget can cost over $500.00, and often more.

        The third choice, is for those that don't like all that ugly equipment in view. The choice is no heater. Would you believe, all my aquariums are heater less? Actually, there are probably more plants that prefer cooler water than those that need heated water. Most notable, is the majestic Madagascar Lace and the very popular Cabomba.(rewrite finished)

        6. Algae

        Alga is planet Earth's primary supplier of oxygen and often at the bottom of our food chain. It is indeed our friend, until it shows up uninvited in our aquarium. If you meet all the other parameters of setting up a plant tank, algae will likely be your biggest problem. One reason that algae is often so prominent, is because we are trying to promote good plant growth and algae is a plant. Furthermore, algae cheats.

        Two things to keep in mind if you find yourself scrubbing algae off the glass. There are ways to control algae if you know thy enemy. Secondly, for reasons I am not totally sure of, the longer the tank goes, the less of a problem algae becomes. My belief is, that higher plant forms don't care much for algae either. Many plants can emit a mild toxin in the water that limits or prevents certain alga. This is called allelopathy.

        There are some 30,000 species of alga known. Fortunately, only a few have discovered how to find your aquarium. There is a good chance you never have any serious algae problem, but for those that find their way, we want to make life miserable for them.

        7. Alga I.D.

        a.BLUE-GREEN algae. This is usually the first to arrive, as at seems to enjoy taking advantage of the typical chaos of a not so stable, newly set-up aquarium. It has blue-green color, slimy texture and onion like odor. Most of it can usually be removed slowly with your fingers. Usually, daily finger removal works until it gives up. It is important not to let this get to advanced, as it can smother plants and emit deadly toxins to fish.

        Actually, Blue-Green algae is not an algae, but a bacteria. There is fish remedies that have probably never saved a fish, but it will kill this. The generic name is erythromycin. One I like even better is called kanamycin. Pet shops carry these in there fish remedy section, just check the back of the package for the active ingredient.

        b.Some typical GREEN algae-

        -volvox-which is a floating algae that can turn the water to pea soup. The remedy is partial water changes until it clears or fine filtering like diatom or small micron filters.

        -spirogyra-a filament algae made of long thin strands that cluster and usually entwine themselves in the plants. It's often a very fast grower but is easy to remove by hand.

        -Green fur algae- short hair like patches usually on the leaves. It will usually rub off.

        -Green Dot algae- Usually grows on the glass. It can be removed with scrub pad or razor. Main reason I prefer glass aquariums.

        c.RED algae-Two similar types are named Brush and Beard. Neither is red and in fact appear black. They look like little worn out art brush bristles. If you don't bother them, the strands can grow quite long. Better names for these guys would be gloom and doom. This is what I consider the worst thing that can happen to a plant tank. What makes these algae so nasty, is there tenacity to hold on to what ever they grow on. If it grows on a leaf you can't remove it without tearing the leaf. Equally nasty if it grows on anything with texture.

        8. War on red algae

        a. Sometimes in well planted tanks, removing the inflicted leaves, increasing the lights and some partial water changes will do the trick.

        b. The ultimate destroyer is a fish called the Siamese Algae Eater (Crossocheilus siamensis). This is the only critter known to eat this algae. Similar looking fish, like the Chinese Algae Eater or Flying Fox won't touch it.

        c.(Update)It would be nice to just drop a tablet of an algaecide and have it clear up in a few days. In the original article, I suggested even doubling the dose of an algaecide as a last resort. Best I can tell after a little more history, even that won't work.

        To my knowledge, the active ingredient in all algaecides is SIMIZINE. Simizine is made to kill aquatic weeds. Some of our favorite plants are in the weed category. Interestingly, is that simizine is very selective about what it kills. It may wipe out one species and cause no injury to another. Another drawback, is that simizine does not go away without some substantial water changing. I know a lot of people swear it works on lesser alga. I can now only see using it in unplanted fish tanks.

        d.A lot of experts have been suggesting a diluted bleach solution. After simizine failed on my one infected aquarium, I tried the bleach. I removed all the plants, threw out all the substrate and decor. Before I dumped the water, I added a pint of bleach to the aquarium water and let it sit for two hours before I dumped it. I replaced the substrate and soaked each plant in the diluted bleach solution. The algae turned white, but never fell off the leaves. I lost a lot of leaves but new ones came back. After about 45 days the red algae was back as bad as ever.

        The next time, I cleaned out the same tank, the same way. Only this time I replaced the plants. After 8 months there has been no sign of red algae.

        e.A copper treatment will kill red algae. Best of all, you do not need to remove the plants or substrate. It can kill some species of fish. For this reason the fish should be removed. Mixing copper formulas is also a drawback for many. If your inclined, copper sulfate is used at 0.05 ppm. The treatment is one dose a day for 10 days.(update finished)

        9. Defending against the other alga.

        Although algae is pretty foxy, it does have an Achilles heel. The more this vulnerability is exploited the better. ALGA IS LIMITED TO ZONE 3, THE WATER COLUMN. This means alga only source of nutrients must also be in the water column. Most rooted plants on the other hand, have two choices where they can extract their food. They can take in some nutrients through their leaves (in the water column), but prefer to use their roots. Nutrients placed in a good substrate, can be locked out of the water column, thus depriving the alga. The natural nutrients, provided mostly by fish food (uneaten or digested waste), in the water column is the alga primary remaining source. For alga, this means they still must compete with the leaves of other plants.

        Another way to exploit the alga is by using some floating plants. The type of plants I am referring to have their roots in the water column and leaves above the water. Floating plants use their roots to extract large amounts of nutrients from the water column, thus more deprivation to the alga. Ideal plants for this task are Salvinia, Azolla, Duckweed and Wolfia. For larger tanks, which can except taller floating plants, Water Lettuce and even smaller Water Hyacinth can be used. A word of caution. Floating plants block out light. For this reason I only use them as a temporary plant. I also don't let them have over 2/3 of the water surface.

        Iron is a trace element required by plants (including algae) to complete photosynthesis. Even though the amount needed is minute, without it, plants die. When iron enters the water column it is usually locked up by oxidation(oxygen in the water). Even if you tossed an iron horseshoe in the water it would not be available to the plants. Iron must be soluble (dissolved). A good substrate can unlock (dissolve) the iron for plants , and keeps it out of the water column. For this reason I am avoiding adding liquid fertilizers/iron to the water column.

        The more heavily planted an aquariums is, the more it depletes the water column of nutrients. Which is one more reason heavily planted aquariums fair better than lightly planted aquariums

        For a long time, I passed on the myth, that the pond snails that hitchhike into our aquariums, via the plants, were plant predators. Of the seven species I've seen to date, only one has caused plant damage. They are always busy on the glass or plants so I can only assume they are eating algae.

        Far better than snails is algae eating fish. Algae eating is not limited to the sucker mouthed fish. Platies, mollies, swordtails and variatus are constant algae eaters. Of the sucker mouthed fish, the otocinclus is my favorite. Small plecostomus are OK but can be destructive to plants when they get bigger. Many of the little freshwater shrimp are also considered to be algae eaters.

        10. SETTING UP A NEW AQUARIUM

        Generally, it's the first 2-6 months in the life of a planted aquarium that you're going to experience new forms of flora you didn't order or want. There is also a very good chance you won't have any major algae problems. Much of the problem in a new tank is caused because the aquarium needs some time to build up bacteria and getting the plants settled in properly (roots and leaves growing). My method was to start with mostly fast growing plants and some algae eating type fish, which were fed once lightly every other day or so. That was basically my suggestion when the original article was written. I also mentioned that I was going to try something a little different.The last set-up I did, I added the plants, but then waited 2 weeks before adding any fish. Perhaps you cannot draw a conclusion on one test, but the results were, no algae problems.
         

      ZONE 4- WATER COLUMN/ SUBSTRATE INTERFACE

      When your working with an aquarium with little or no filtering, substantial amounts of fish waste (often called mulm) accumulates and usually assembles around the base of the plants. In a fish tank, we typically siphon off the bottom and in the gravel, when removing water to replace during partial water changes. For several reasons I don't recommend this in a low-tech tank.

      The top layer of what I recommend for a substrate is sand. Typical siphoning will not only remove the sand but your likely going to get into a bigger mess if you get below the sand. The second reason is, that fish waste is digested fish food, which in turn is plant food.

      If the piles of mulm get to be higher than your eyes can stand, use a piece of airline to siphon some out.

      ZONE 5- THE SUBSTRATE

      When searching for a quality substrate I knew 3 things. First, plants in nature grow in mud, rarely sand or gravel. Secondly, every report I read about using clay type substrates (such as laterite) were positive. Thirdly, I was not going to pay $25.00 for a small bucket of commercial substrate.

      Most back yard dirt makes for a pretty good substrate, (maybe the best). For many reasons, I can't recommend it (yet). One reason is, it can be contaminated by pesticides or other chemicals, there is also a diverse soil selection once you leave my backyard, many would be unsuitable. Another reason is, that most soils have a certain amount of debris not wanted, such as stones, roots, dog bones, used cadavers etc., that are time consuming to remove.

      Of all the things I tried, Kitty Litter (clay) covered by about 1 1/2" of sand worked the best. Kitty Litter is really nothing but relatively clean dirt, that's processed by heat. There is nothing to clean and is cheap and convenient to use.

      The advantage over gravel, is not just better growth and healthier plants, but also a major defense against algae.

      If you use plain gravel or sand (without clay), the plants will not be able to extract much nutrient, if any, from the roots. This means they have to be fed liquid fertilizers in the water column (same place as algae). Kitty Litter allows the plants to grow healthier roots, but also root hairs, that they won't grow in sand or gravel. This is very important in getting the roots to be the main entry point of the fertilizer. This allows you to feed the plants in the substrate, almost totally locked out of the water column.

      Plant requirements are not difficult to meet, but there are several things if not taken care of, will kill a plant. For example, a lack of light or CO2. To that list you can add iron. It is only needed in minute amounts but without it, plants can't photosynthesize, and will die. It would seem a simple enough task to add iron to solve the problem. Actually, it is simple to add iron, the problem is that even liquid iron additives quickly become oxidized in water. In effect, the iron turns into the equivalent of iron nails. There is no way the plants can use the iron in this form. The iron must be dissolved to be used by the plants. This takes a very fine substrate, such as clay or mud.  The Kitty Litter gives you a surface that is about 10,000 times finer than sand. This causes the iron molecules to spread out, which in this case, means become dissolved. Once again we have also deprived the water column (algae)of the iron it needs.

      NEVER try to wash Kitty Litter before putting it in the aquarium. In fact, I don't even like to get it wet until I have it covered with the sand. The sand I use is sand blasting sand. It comes in 3 grades, the courser the better, although the fine will work. The coarsest sand is still finer than typical aquarium gravel.

      Usually, I use about 1"-2" of Kitty Litter. Before I cover it with sand, I add the fertilizer to the Kitty Litter. MORE ON KITTY LITTER When I started using kitty litter, I tried using about 6 different brands.  I tested each one for pH by adding a couple teaspoons full to a cup of water. None of these changed the pH so I assumed all the "natural" clay litter was alike. I was wrong. 
      Most of the cost of kitty litter is in transportation, thus as a manufacturer, the closer you are to the mine, the more competitive you are. This spawns many regional brands. Most (but not all) the kitty litter found east of the Mississippi is mined in Georgia and is great for planted  aquariums (but I would still test.) The west coast kitty litter is mined somewhere else and most will raiser the pH (not good).

      There is no way for me to test all the hundreds of regional brands of kitty litter, however, there is one or two national brands that work if you can find them. One is Hartz Mt. the brand name is called "pH 5".  Oil-dri is another company that packages the clay for both kitty litter and to clean up oil spills on pavement.

      There are other kitty litters to avoid as well. Kitty litter is a generic term for anything used in a cat box. It can made of corn cob, newspaper pellets etc. These you want to avoid. Also, the scoop able kind that comes in plastic bottle is no good.  The kitty litter we want is all natural clay with no additives like deodorizers. It comes in paper sacks (like dry dog food) and I'm paying $3.00 for a 25lb. bag.

      I'm playing around with some other cheap substrates and plan on writing a topic to be placed somewhere within these web pages (not in the guide).  I might suggest you go to my "picture gallery" page. Once there check out "Boingy's" kitty litter aquarium, from there you can go directly to her web page. Besides admiring some other shots of her aquariums, she has a page she did on kitty litter she tested from her area. FERTILIZERS (Update)In the original guide I suggested using the Koi goldfish pellets as an organic fertilizer. The only problem I had with that was, it doesn't last very long and it's very easy to overdo it and create a mess.  If you don't mind paying the price for commercial fertilizer for fish tanks , you can use that, in fact it may be your best option if you are only doing one or two tanks.  I found a more practical fertilizer that I got  at a plant nursery. It cost about the same, but I can do 15 tanks instead of one for the same price. The product is called Osmocote.  After 6 months I still have not added any other fertilizer to the substrate. In tanks that are set up not to optimize fast growth, the plants can derive most of their food from the fish waste.

      Nursery fertilizer is always marked with the N.P.K. (such as 15-15-10). The most important number is the middle one, Phosphorus. The lower the number the better. The lowest in Osmocote that I located is 6. There is no directions for aquarium use, but I used about 1 level teaspoon per square foot of bottom surface. I also stirred it into Kitty Litter before I covered it with the sand. The one downside to Osmocote is that the beads are very small and would take forever to use this for refertilizing. This is why I said that using a regular aquarium plant fertilizer for substrates might be just as easy and practical.

      A number of people have expressed concern that this substrate is very anaerobic (lacks oxygen). Actually, all substrates are anaerobic including gravel. The mud that plants grow in, in nature, is also anaerobic. Plants deal with this by forcing small amounts of oxygen through the roots. This allows for aerobic types of good guy bacteria to grow around the roots.

      MISC. NOTES- Bunch plants usually come with lead weight straps on the bottom. Remove the strap and any leaves near the bottom part of the stem. Plant the stems separately. If the plant is potted, you can leave it that way. However, because you have to make a rather large hole in the kitty litter substrate, I usually remove the pot and as much Rockwell as possible.

      If your new to plants, I would suggest you might not want to start trying to lay out a master aquascape. I use what I call the mish-mash approach. This means if I like a certain plant, I buy it, then figure out what to do with it. This gives you a chance to learn about what plants do best for you, there care, how big they get etc. One thing nice about live plants is, that no matter how bad your decorating skills may be, the aquarium will still look if it's heavily planted.



    1. PART 3- is here!

      unpublished

      Avoiding the number one cause of aquarium disasters.

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        Dan Quackenbush
        90 Bruce Lane
        Covington, Georgia 30014

            DQAllWet@Avana.net